tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post1199867491498775885..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: A Plot is not Just to Grow Potatoes - Debbie BennettKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27726415957206086022015-06-08T06:44:38.369+01:002015-06-08T06:44:38.369+01:00I think the primary issue is that the lack of gate...I think the primary issue is that the lack of gatekeepers (traditional publishing) has opened the gates for writers and books that just aren't ready for public consumption. I would guess that 60% of my reading list are "DNF" (did not finish) for exactly the reasons you describe - essentially - boring. The writer just hasn't developed the skill to hold my attention. Yet. They might someday, with more practice, with more books unde their belts, with more mentoring, or if someone braver than myself dares to write a critical review, or of their book sales fall flat. It will be interesting to see how this continues over time.SM Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02991536645592985414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27784227636206441952015-06-07T17:01:33.658+01:002015-06-07T17:01:33.658+01:00Wonderful post, Debbie. And I love the line: They ...Wonderful post, Debbie. And I love the line: They ramble up and down the leafy lanes of the author’s imagination without thought to the journey’s end or even a vague direction sometimes. glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-62597245917665959482015-06-07T12:52:43.729+01:002015-06-07T12:52:43.729+01:00Excellent points, and quite depressing about the r...Excellent points, and quite depressing about the revenge-motif in giving reviews. When you suggested fans possibly doing it, instead of the vengeful writer-- chilling!<br /><br />For the writing itself, what else to expect? Folks like us can publish for practically nothing up front, and all the advice we're getting is about having lots of books in the pipeline. So we either stretch out the plot (more books) or chop up a novel into parts (:: raises hand, claims guilt ::) anything to have more TITLES on the virtual shelf and look like a prolific author. Whatever happened to the long view?<br /><br />As for stylistic concerns, it will surely vary by genre a bit- epic fantasy carries a burden to explain an entire world where everything (potentially) is different, and you can't wait to tell the reader until later because they'll form their image around a default based on this world. So descriptive words and qualifiers become vital, or else you have something more like The Jetsons or Flintstones- a patina of fantasy over the everyday. Tough row to hoe! But fun.Wm. L. Hahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918981970218130294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-43431020286480363532015-06-07T09:53:31.505+01:002015-06-07T09:53:31.505+01:00Gosh Dennis I had no idea that was going on in sch...Gosh Dennis I had no idea that was going on in schools. how appalling.Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-80476033208832695152015-06-07T09:41:53.027+01:002015-06-07T09:41:53.027+01:00Ah, Umberto, you've opened a whole can of worm...Ah, Umberto, you've opened a whole can of worms there about US usage (Strunk) and UK English. I find Strunk's strictures don't sit at all well with UK English. And I think that gap is probably widening. Although the advent of eBooks may have started to make a difference. I don't do American versions of my books and only occasionally now does somebody criticise (or criticize?) my usage and spelling conventions. Maybe we'll become more tolerant of our differences. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-10079525686539025872015-06-07T06:47:23.508+01:002015-06-07T06:47:23.508+01:00I don't know about YA novels, but I do read a ...I don't know about YA novels, but I do read a lot of books about writing, useful and fuzzy. I recommend "Stealing Fire From the Gods" by James Bonnet, as one of the most lucid guides ever for developing story dynamics. Bonnet eschews simplistic how-to material in favor of demonstrating the powerful psychological and mythological roots of storytelling and how the masters have used them, and in a most accessible way. As for sentence structure, I'm old fashioned, and tend to stick with Strunk. Excellent post. Thank you.Umberto Tosihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04939504157464234443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-83174417592558667422015-06-06T23:25:31.962+01:002015-06-06T23:25:31.962+01:00This is true Debbie and follows from my recent pos...This is true Debbie and follows from my recent post on padding in fiction, and I'm finding it in best selling big publisher fiction as well these days. maybe some people like reading it! or just are used to skipping through books? Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-66544096417926014822015-06-06T16:48:02.781+01:002015-06-06T16:48:02.781+01:00I have a feeling that we may be in for whole lifet...<br />I have a feeling that we may be in for whole lifetimes of overblown prose from new writers unless we head it off at the pass. The new guidelines for writing in the primary school have come out and they make disturbing reading. The Scattered Authors Society is sending a letter to the DfE, Ofqual, etc, pointing out their folly and I guess they'd like extra signatures. So here's the draft letter, written by Celia Busby. I think she'd like to get even more signatures.<br /><br />We are a group of children’s writers who have become increasingly concerned about the teaching of writing in recent years, particularly in primary schools. As professional writers, we often visit schools to promote reading and encourage creativity and enjoyment of writing among children of primary age. <br /> All of us have noticed a very damaging tendency for children at primary schools to be steered towards certain styles of writing in line with the assessment criteria used to measure children’s levels of attainment. As a result their writing is in general less fluent, clear and engaging and has a tendency to be cramped, stuffy, over-complex and just plain poor in style. This has knock-on effects on their writing at secondary school and has been noticed by some of us in students at university level.<br /> National Curriculum guidance on the use of ‘varied vocabulary’ and ‘imaginative language’ has meant in practice (and we have all seen examples of this in classrooms) children are taught not to use simple words such as ‘good’, ‘bad’, ‘small’ or ‘big’ but to always find other more ‘interesting’ words to replace them – such as ‘wonderful’, ‘terrible’, ‘minuscule’ or ‘enormous’. They are also taught never to use ‘and’ or ‘said’ if they can shoehorn in ‘additionally’ or ‘exclaimed’.<br /> Because these words and constructions are in effect handed to children as ‘better’ alternatives to simple words, they do not come across them in context. They fail to understand the nuances of their use, and they also fail to realise that they are relatively unusual – that they are used sparingly in good writing. For every use of the word ‘minuscule’ in actual books, there are probably twenty uses of the word ‘small’.<br /> We would urge the government, Ofqual and the Standards and Testing Agency to consider ways in which they can make it quite clear to teachers and assessors that complex vocabulary and complicated sentence structures should be used with caution and their use should always be subordinate to good, clear and fluent style. Otherwise we risk producing a generation of children who believe that a sentence such as ‘I bounded excitedly from my cramped wooden seat and flung my arm gracefully up like a bird soaring into the sky’ is always better than ‘I stood and put my hand up.’<br /><br /><br />__._,_.___Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70830336769174890672015-06-06T10:46:07.865+01:002015-06-06T10:46:07.865+01:00The mistake many indie writers make is that they u...The mistake many indie writers make is that they usually writing for themselves, rather than trying to communicate with a reader. They often think they want someone to read their work, but only on their terms. No negative comments! Many write for self affirmation or as therapy. It gets annoying, because they're convinced there's a key to getting published, that they'll find if they write enough words. Not so. You have to abandon yourself. It takes a good measure of humility to be a published writer. You have to get strangers on your side, not through your qualifications, social standing, wealth, influence or good looks, but through what you have to offer to the market place. You have to listen to what they're telling you, especially when it's not what you want to hear. It's not easy. Pauline Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260428070144389154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27259935069688821872015-06-06T10:19:15.953+01:002015-06-06T10:19:15.953+01:00Very well said Debbie. This post could also be rea...Very well said Debbie. This post could also be read by those starting on their writing journey as a guide to plotting and sentence structure. ThanksWendy H. Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022089775887274043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-65124821483403168582015-06-06T10:16:16.327+01:002015-06-06T10:16:16.327+01:00Excellent post, and yes - these things are basics ...Excellent post, and yes - these things are basics and you need to know at least some rules in order to break them. I'm a firm believer that self editing is a skill that should be taught because we are all trying to find out what kind of writer we are - but we need to know why something works, and why something might be problematic - even if we then go on to break the rules for a purpose, rather than breaking them out of ignorance. The most valuable piece of advice I ever had was from another writer (I was very young) and he told me I was 'watering my Dylan Thomas adjectives and watching them grow.' He didn't tell me what to prune, or what to do. But that observation was like a light bulb going on inside my head. And he didn't say delete all adverbs and adjectives either. He just said 'choose carefully, quality is better than quantity'. Similarly another writer who was gently mentoring me in writing for film, pointed out that most speeches in film scripts could be drastically pruned because the actor feels it, the camera sees it and as the writer you have to be seeing it too. But I think there is nothing wrong with learning the craft aspects of your work. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-13921290294736715492015-06-06T09:38:47.909+01:002015-06-06T09:38:47.909+01:00Debbie, I thought this post could be taught in wor...Debbie, I thought this post could be taught in workshops as an example to all beginning writers! Spot on.<br /><br />Which is the point, Lee. All craft starts at the beginning. Learn to grind paint before you paint the fresco. Learn about the grain of wood before you create the breathtaking cabinet.<br /><br />And before you can write wonderful, ground-breaking, rule-breaking literary fiction that raise the bar for the next generation - well, perhaps you should know about the basics so, as Debbie says, you can break the rules 'with purpose and confidence.'<br /><br />If you're already writing wonderful, ground-breaking, rule-breaking literary fiction that raises the bar for the next generation - fine. Have away and do it. Debbie wasn't addressing you.Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70653040856068697502015-06-06T09:29:01.053+01:002015-06-06T09:29:01.053+01:00That's exactly the point I'm making, Lee. ...That's exactly the point I'm making, Lee. Break the rules - be innovative and exciting, but do it deliberately and not because you don't know any different.<br /><br />And a book where 50% of the words are adjectives and adverbs - and there is no plot at all - is very boring indeed to me. Debbie Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06761474820689143835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-79865903250252090082015-06-06T09:18:01.019+01:002015-06-06T09:18:01.019+01:00What was competently written? The YA novel or the ...What was competently written? The YA novel or the review?<br /><br />The problem with commonplace advice like this is that it can help someone write a competent novel, but not a really good one. And competent writing is often very boring indeed.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-31390897710406599662015-06-06T09:14:25.512+01:002015-06-06T09:14:25.512+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-79628389210143448802015-06-06T08:13:10.681+01:002015-06-06T08:13:10.681+01:00Agreed - if I read a sample (in any genre) that ma...Agreed - if I read a sample (in any genre) that makes me want to get out a red pen and slash words, then I abandon it. There are too many wonderful books waiting to be read to spend time on something that irritates me.JOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03127111575563904349noreply@blogger.com