tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post4748603142423592292..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: If only life were like Art by Bill KirtonKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-16802475564006905692013-03-08T16:41:29.729+00:002013-03-08T16:41:29.729+00:00Glad we're in agreement, Lydia. I'm not a ...Glad we're in agreement, Lydia. I'm not a Donna Tartt fan, though, so I can't comment there.<br /><br />Cally, see what I mean about mincemeat? In contexts such as this I use words too loosely. In fact, despite tagging the 'most people' bit on, I wasn't associating you with any faith, certainly not anything religious.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-41405253231793532472013-03-08T13:45:35.480+00:002013-03-08T13:45:35.480+00:00Faith? What faith? Is it an act of faith to say th...Faith? What faith? Is it an act of faith to say that we create meaning? I don't think so. I don't think I have faith in anything, just a belief that whether there is any external objectivity (or even reality) isn't for me to say. As in Brand Loyalty 'reality is what we choose to believe) but we all do make choices. I choose to make meaning. Philosophy isn't based on faith it's based on reason, or at least an attempt at rational discourse. Faith is for religious people of which I'm definitely not one! CallyPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481379296340077102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-190554578373043762013-03-08T07:43:43.229+00:002013-03-08T07:43:43.229+00:00' I certainly contrive my own meanings and sig...' I certainly contrive my own meanings and significances from things that happen to me, but they're solipsistic, contingent and temporary...'<br /><br />You contrive your meaning from several thousand years of history - social, moral, political, spiritual etc. To think that you do it on your own is in itself absurd.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-87390436623586732062013-03-07T16:13:09.382+00:002013-03-07T16:13:09.382+00:00I meant crime novels that shirk the resolution of ...I meant crime novels that shirk the resolution of the crime/puzzle to be edgy Bill, not nec a 'happy ending' or whatevs. Donna Tartt's 2nd novel a case in point. Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-31987073968584801762013-03-07T13:37:09.071+00:002013-03-07T13:37:09.071+00:00I don't think we're at odds, Cally. I cert...I don't think we're at odds, Cally. I certainly contrive my own meanings and significances from things that happen to me, but they're solipsistic, contingent and temporary and I wouldn't dream of extrapolating from them to suggest they signify anything to anyone else.<br /><br />And, despite the nature of this posting and my replies, I'm flattered (and terrified) to be given the label 'philosopher'. Yes, I find the existentialists come closest to 'explaining' things in a way that makes sense to me but if I had to stand up and debate these things with you, you'd make mincemeat of me, as would most people with any sort of faith. My own lack of faith isn't nihilistic, I love life and I'm having a great time.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-13432793242602643402013-03-07T13:20:01.817+00:002013-03-07T13:20:01.817+00:00Ooops Lydia, better stay clear of my books then. Y...Ooops Lydia, better stay clear of my books then. Yes, the crimes get solved but I resist the idea of 'OK that's that then. God's in His heaven, all's right with the world'. In fact the 'arc' (I hate the word) of the character I'm talking about made a definite shift in the 3rd book, which really questioned popular conceptions of right and wrong. I don't do it to be edgy but because neatly tying up all threads seems ... well ... unreal.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-4835626383393008982013-03-07T13:09:48.857+00:002013-03-07T13:09:48.857+00:00The destination is in the journey, Bill. But that ...The destination is in the journey, Bill. But that may not mean anything to you. <br />I think, in life as in art, we put the meaning in there. We make the meaning. I quote from 'A beautiful mind' 'Life - activities available, just add meaning' <br /><br />(Chris, Bill is an existential philosopher - I on the other hand am a fully paid up moral philosopher of more analytical tradition) Thus he says life is absurd and I say, life is absurd but we make it mean something (if we choose) For most people they want the meaning given to them, for some of us we're happy to create our own meaning. Is that life reflecting art? CallyPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481379296340077102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-24796705175086934032013-03-07T12:36:06.805+00:002013-03-07T12:36:06.805+00:00You may well find the series changes as you write ...You may well find the series changes as you write it, just as individual books do, Bill. And of course you can always start a new series, a spin-off perhaps so one of your subsiduary characters gets the limelight! Crime fiction in particular creates the reassurance that here at least, there is a resolution, and bad people get punished or at least found out, which is why attempts by crime writers to be 'edgy' by not ending properly are very annoying (debating this on fb at the mo!)Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-37755816091512864642013-03-07T11:44:55.648+00:002013-03-07T11:44:55.648+00:00Yes, Dennis, that's what I mean - in their dif...Yes, Dennis, that's what I mean - in their different ways the arts, unlike life, do offer recognisable, meaningful structures. They marshal the knowledge you need to confirm a belief. (NB, not necessarily a belief SYSTEM since the knowledge relates only to the specific circumstances of that particular piece of art.)<br /><br />And, while it's never occurred to me to think I was a disciple of my main character, I recognise the truth of what you say about his possible nocturnal visit.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-90981254303829872722013-03-07T10:48:23.976+00:002013-03-07T10:48:23.976+00:00I'm 90% on the crap side, Bill: the left-over ...I'm 90% on the crap side, Bill: the left-over bit is a sort of insurance policy in case I'm wrong.. There is a structure in art: that's what it's for even if we can't at first see for ourselves what it is. There's a different world with its own laws in music and painting. I hear it in Beethoven and see it when I watch Kay, my partner, paint. But our art-form does it best: makes separate worlds in words, with structure which tries to give order to the foul rag-and-bone shop of the heart and give form to the logic, if it is there, of events and character. And yes, we know when our structure is complete - or at least when the time has come to abandon it for the moment. Reb may be right: not only will the money lure you back but your main character may visit you in the night and say 'Hold on, Bill, I'm not finished yet, despite what I told you before.'Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-85779120049354377782013-03-07T10:28:36.798+00:002013-03-07T10:28:36.798+00:00Reb, just to confirm the absurdity of my position,...Reb, just to confirm the absurdity of my position, if they pay me enough, I will.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-2132225379615995372013-03-07T10:27:14.466+00:002013-03-07T10:27:14.466+00:00I strongly suspect that you're in the majority...I strongly suspect that you're in the majority, Lee.<br />And Chris, what do you mean 'a bit of'?Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-18482065741229921412013-03-07T10:26:07.797+00:002013-03-07T10:26:07.797+00:00Bill, you're headed for an exquisite, and absu...Bill, you're headed for an exquisite, and absurd, disappointment: just as you put Paid to this series, it will catch on in a big way with readers--and you'll have no say in the matter, you'll simply have to write five more.glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-6367549535538086322013-03-07T09:31:38.807+00:002013-03-07T09:31:38.807+00:00Always knew you were a bit of a philosopher, Bill!...Always knew you were a bit of a philosopher, Bill!Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-73738429358377593102013-03-07T09:23:11.895+00:002013-03-07T09:23:11.895+00:00Well, I'll come down on the 'crap' sid...Well, I'll come down on the 'crap' side, Bill. There's no such thing as not believing in anything. A belief system may be religious or secular, conscious or not, but it exists and underlies most if not all the choices a person makes.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.com