tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post5310538804140060926..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: Editor at Bloomsbury, please, please love my book - Alice JollyKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-20978597890866147252015-08-10T21:04:54.218+01:002015-08-10T21:04:54.218+01:00So many wonderful and interesting thoughts here. ...So many wonderful and interesting thoughts here. I just feel ashamed that it has taken me days to find a moment to read them properly. I particularly like the idea that there are people out there who don't need external validation because they are convinced of the value of their own work - but actually really shouldn't be. I hadn't really thought of that before although, of course, it is spot on. I have to say that for me writing is never going to be a business. However, I do like the idea of 'partnership' and I do accept that if, as in any other area of life, you really don't know what you are doing, then you will simply be taken advantage of. Uuuum. I don't know. It's complicated. For years I've gone around saying, 'I just feel that if you work hard and you are sincere about what you do and if your books are good - then one day you will be noticed.' But increasingly I think that is sentimental rubbish. So in the autumn I am going in for networking. I might even enjoy it. Been stuck in the country and buried in small kind stuff for too long. Am going to lose weight and buy a new dress. Go out ..... At least until I remember that I am fundamentally anti social. Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02472729169216109749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-7293612340302570332015-08-04T21:01:48.860+01:002015-08-04T21:01:48.860+01:00I think we all need validation by people we respec...<br />I think we all need validation by people we respect professionally. It is never enough that our families love our work. I think that's why approval from our peers, whose credibility is not in question and whose critical faculties are not blunted by affection, is so important and why encouraging each other matters.<br />Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442269757463713048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-81558041328010906682015-08-04T19:14:06.587+01:002015-08-04T19:14:06.587+01:00Alice, this is a very thought-provoking post and e...Alice, this is a very thought-provoking post and everything in my writing life attests to its truth. Yes, I've had very similar conversations with Oxford diploma students, both when I taught them and now with those I still mentor. I try to tell them the real situation - but also say that it's their right to try for the glittering prizes. After all, it might work and the risk of having their hearts broken by the myopia and unprofessionalism of so many present day agents and publishers must be accepted. I'm not trying to sound like a grumpy old man, though I am one, when I bewail the disappearance of the integrity, critical acumen and wisdom of most publishers in the 70s when I first got going. Catherine, I know that creative tutors aren't necessarily entrepeneurs but most of us do - or should - know the score. And some of us are trying to give more formal outlets for good work. Blank Page Press will soon be here! Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-36866461086964436002015-08-04T17:27:35.095+01:002015-08-04T17:27:35.095+01:00Oh yes. I can so empathise with this. There's ...Oh yes. I can so empathise with this. There's a certain large group of people - parents included - for whom a book will never have been published unless it is "properly" published and therefore will never acknowledge me as a serious writer. Despite the fact that I have probably made more money doing it myself than I would have made with a no/minimum advance, tie-up-your-rights-forever contract with the big guys!Debbie Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06761474820689143835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-7860608853279162032015-08-04T16:58:42.116+01:002015-08-04T16:58:42.116+01:00However, despite the ghastly celeb-books the big p...However, despite the ghastly celeb-books the big publishers throw their cash at, while scorning the 'poor quality' indie and self-pubbed, there are some very quirky and brilliantly written books that do make it big. We do all need validation and frankly, I encounter quite a few writers who are happy with their own validation which is in some cases misplaced... it does help to have some from readers, publishers, broadcasters,directors, producers, listeners, etc, especially for those of us who don't trust our own praise or would be very negative about our own work without it. Honestly though, there may be some big successes for small press publishers, but often, books they publish get little distribution or notice by the establishment, and unless one of those strange word of mouth, bit of luck as well as talent things happens, they will probably never be discovered by most of the readers who'd have loved them.Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-35020938144988980582015-08-04T13:37:08.551+01:002015-08-04T13:37:08.551+01:00Oh, Alice - this reverberated on so many levels - ...Oh, Alice - this reverberated on so many levels - personal anguish, the devastation and discouragement on the faces of my students, friends whose lives have been blighted by rejections they didn't deserve. We've been brainwashed into believing that commercial publishing was the only kind of artistic validation worth having. And the legacy of that is a lot of tawdry prose for readers and a lot of grief for authors. <br />Thanks for helping to expose it.Kathleen Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07645566938871914385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-80843483257307494412015-08-04T11:27:54.128+01:002015-08-04T11:27:54.128+01:00You're right, Andrew, but it isn't just fi...You're right, Andrew, but it isn't just fine writing or literary writing or whatever. It's that whole mid-list thing that has been squeezed out by the big boys and has largely decamped to either self publishing or the small independents.That's why you get those sudden and 'unexpected' best-sellers, popular novels emerging from micro publishers. I remember a time when they were quite proudly proclaiming the 'death of the mid-list' as though this were something to be celebrated! It ignored a whole tranche of readers - and those readers, as Chris says, don't care who publishes a book. I'm convinced it's one of the reasons for the hatred of Amazon in some quarters - the refusal to corral indies and micro publishers in some separate part of the site, where readers can't see them! Chris, I'm sure you're right about the lack of business acumen among many CW tutors. And with departments strapped for cash, they don't seem to even bring in outsiders to redress the balance. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-19458364897595413632015-08-04T11:20:45.142+01:002015-08-04T11:20:45.142+01:00Great post, Alice. Strange, isn't it, how that...Great post, Alice. Strange, isn't it, how that need to be acknowledged by 'them' persists? And what a world we're in if works are 'too good to be published'.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-51186647883197391952015-08-04T10:25:52.641+01:002015-08-04T10:25:52.641+01:00I wonder if perhaps it is inevitable that big corp...I wonder if perhaps it is inevitable that big corporate publishers will become "vulgar" as Mr Tonkin puts it, because they are driven by business people who need to sell to the largest possible audiences. Difficult, experimental writing has always been a minority taste. I guess there are editors who don't just want to churn out genre books and they are the people who go off and found the independents. In time I suppose those independents will be bought by the big boys and other new ones will spring up in their place. Many publishers like Bloomsbury were once those exciting new companies themselves and their founding myths still live on, even though they are now as big and corporate as the rest. <br />Expecting the big corporates to publish fine writing is a bit like expecting McDonalds to serve up fresh canapes.Andrew Croftshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101696875255886422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-40752250777978395862015-08-04T10:22:40.422+01:002015-08-04T10:22:40.422+01:00There is a lot of truth and a lot to think about i...There is a lot of truth and a lot to think about in this article, and from my perspective the main thing of value coming to the writer from acceptance by the publishing oligarchs, is validation. And let's admit it, we all want to be validated. The sad thing is that in order to be accepted by most of the media, eg newspapers, magazines, etc, writers' conferences and conventions, and even other more traditionally published authors, that validation is required. Indie writers are still working at having their work recognised in the same way that indie music and films are. Indie music and films do not seem to have the same need for validation in order to be accepted. The good thing is that readers do accept indies, they don't look on the bookshelves of a store, virtual or otherwise, for a book published by a specific publisher, they look for the author's name. The publisher does not have the same sway with them that it does in other areas of the bookselling world. And I agree with you, Catherine, the business aspect is very important and as such should be taught on creative writing course, However, I would imagine the problem is that the tutors of these courses are those to whom validation is the most important aspect of publishing, where business acumen is probably a disadvantage (for acceptance by a publisher) than an advantage.Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70643790619884555002015-08-04T09:36:11.530+01:002015-08-04T09:36:11.530+01:00Interesting. And true. I've been there, done t...Interesting. And true. I've been there, done that, and now I wonder what on earth was wrong with me! There was a culture of humble supplication and it's still going strong in some quarters. I remember kicking against it even before there were alternatives. Thinking 'why does it have to be like this?' Even trying to ask some publishers why it had to be like this - and receiving the kind of response that a millworker challenging the supremacy of the owners might have received in Victorian Britain! I do think the ability to self publish and distribute via Amazon and other platforms, has changed the game and is still changing it. That, plus the advent of excellent small independent publishers willing to take a few risks, and not wholly hidebound by the demands of the buyers for the big chains - classic case of the tail wagging the whole dog - has made a difference. But the sad fact is that nowadays, the 'editors' people are hoping to please - especially in Big Publishing - may well be recent graduates with undergraduate creative writing degrees working for peanuts or as unpaid interns and with little to no experience of what makes a good book and what people really want to read. Until and unless writers become more businesslike - stop wanting them to like us, start wanting them to partner us - I don't think it's going to change. And I'm sad to say that many (perhaps most?) university creative writing courses do almost nothing to promote the idea that although writing may be a vocation, publishing that writing is a business. Probably because most of those teaching are not, in any sense entrepreneurs. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-9806446156797752812015-08-04T09:09:33.281+01:002015-08-04T09:09:33.281+01:00Thank you, Alice - you have really touched a chord...Thank you, Alice - you have really touched a chord. I have hated myself for how I've behaved in the past in meetings with some editors - I've smiled and crept around like a toadie and let myself be talked into things I DID NOT WANT, by people I could not respect! However, in amongst all that there were one or two bright stars of editors. I still send things out sometimes in the (decreasing) hope that I'll come across another Fiona Kenshole or Isabel Boissier or Beverley Birch - all lost to UK publishing now. I have a horrible feeling that if I ever did get a positive response from one of the 'big' houses, I'd be grinning insanely and telling everyone, damn it.Sandra Hornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01761260568729338471noreply@blogger.com