tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post7646703744673546460..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: READER, I REJECTED HIM by Linda GillardKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-8004249313695943262012-07-18T19:17:34.980+01:002012-07-18T19:17:34.980+01:00Brilliant! I've been told by at least 2 editor...Brilliant! I've been told by at least 2 editors that my heroines are not likeable. As they're teenagers, my response is: yeah. (with shrug, hands in pockets). Thanks for this! Enjoyed reading it.Carol Hedgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359578624109905400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-29456985206739370542012-07-18T12:25:29.432+01:002012-07-18T12:25:29.432+01:00what a great post - and heartening and my current ...what a great post - and heartening and my current heroine is also a bit tricky to like all at once, she takes getting to know. I love Jane Eyre, and I love your rejection letter, it is very of the moment!Rowan Colemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01207876813466262196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-19869269087494861992011-10-12T12:32:57.774+01:002011-10-12T12:32:57.774+01:00Very interesting point, Jan, about JAMAICA INN (wh...Very interesting point, Jan, about JAMAICA INN (which I haven't read either. Memo to self: remedy this asap.) Du Maurier famously objected to being pigeonholed as a romantic novelist and my points perhaps only apply to commercial women's fiction. (Although Lionel Shriver got a lot of flak and rejection slips for WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT KEVIN. It only became a success by good word of mouth.)<br /><br />I wonder if we allow <i>historical</i> heroines more moral leeway? If so, why? Because their behaviour cannot possibly be held up as a template for our own?...Linda Gillardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18335035994393050845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70359259289237653662011-10-12T11:19:08.411+01:002011-10-12T11:19:08.411+01:00all fascinating stuff. but on linda's point ab...all fascinating stuff. but on linda's point about cinema and lit - could it be that if you have a difficult, bad, or unpleasant heroine in print you can't see her, and your imagination tends to reflect your negative perceptions. while on the screen,the "bad girls" are there in front of you, and usually powerful, charismatic, attractive entities (like real human beings you maybe disapprove of but still love/fancy?). i recently read Jamaica Inn for the first time (shame on me), and was fascinated how du maurier got round the sex question. even on the last page, when our heroine was going off to (presumably) a night of passion with a roguish bastard, it was not an "ishyou". perhaps our daphne knew publishers and their lunacies better than some of us do...Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-65002287860067953832011-10-11T19:00:49.785+01:002011-10-11T19:00:49.785+01:00I so agree - protagonists who have lived a bit, ab...I so agree - protagonists who have lived a bit, abused chocolate etc, are far more interesting than the young and beautiful. Indeed, I find myself wanting to tell the young ones they'll feel better when they've grown up a bit!JOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03127111575563904349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-44581487646312864722011-10-11T14:13:51.450+01:002011-10-11T14:13:51.450+01:00Ooh, go on Roz - you know you want to. ;-)Ooh, go on Roz - you know you want to. ;-)Linda Gillardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18335035994393050845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-52963260833909708512011-10-11T13:54:29.862+01:002011-10-11T13:54:29.862+01:00Don't get me started on insane editorial battl...Don't get me started on insane editorial battles about behaviour that readers might copy.Roz Morris aka @Roz_Morris . Blog: Nail Your Novelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088813423467048081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-21747935511748448202011-10-11T13:25:12.850+01:002011-10-11T13:25:12.850+01:00But if Jane Eyre had been rejected we'd never ...But if Jane Eyre had been rejected we'd never have had Wide Sargasso Sea. Now if an editor had come back to Mr Bell and said "hmm. I'm not sure about this as it stands, but one bit did intrigue me. Let me see, what was it, ah yes: 'madwoman in the attic.' There may just be something in that"...Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-91916942754477085372011-10-11T12:26:16.065+01:002011-10-11T12:26:16.065+01:00Thanks, everyone.
Catherine, that is so true abo...Thanks, everyone. <br /><br />Catherine, that is so true about Dickens, though I'd not really thought of it before. We love and/or admire Estella, Nancy & Mme Defarge as characters (or do I mean characterisations?). Drippy Dora Copperfield & Lucie Manette seem like plot devices, love objects only.<br /><br />What I don't understand is why fiction is thought to be different from cinema. Think of the actresses famous for their bad girl roles: Glenn Close, Kathleen Turner, Uma Thurman, Meryl Streep, Jodie Foster and in an earlier age Vivien Leigh, Bette Davis, Joan Crawford and Barbara Stanwyck. <br /><br />Are female readers more judgemental than cienama-goers? (I say female because the need for morally air-brushed characters seems to apply to women's fiction only.)<br /><br />Ros, you make an interesting point about Mrs. de Winter and I agree. Du Maurier manages to depict moral goodness in a way that isn't off-putting or boring. I think Jane Austen also manages this with Fanny Price in MANSFIELD PARK, but I know a lot of readers disagree and think she's a pain in the butt, preferring naughty Mary Crawford.<br /><br />But I'm not sure the editorial battles are really about moral goodness. I fell out with an editor over a pregnant protagonist drinking gin (in a stressful situation). Her argument was intelligent people know you shouldn't drink during pregnancy. My argument was intelligent people frequently do things that are ill-advised. Then it became clear the issue was one of <i>reader-identification</i> not verisimilitude.<br /><br />The gin stayed in. ;-)Linda Gillardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18335035994393050845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-19765375746017941052011-10-11T12:12:06.333+01:002011-10-11T12:12:06.333+01:00Loved the letter, Linda. A really interesting post...Loved the letter, Linda. A really interesting post. Do heroines have to be likeable? I think they do, but above all they have to be human, compelling, someone we can identify with. So likeable yes to a certain extent, perfect absolutely not!Karen Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-46502905143265600982011-10-11T10:41:54.344+01:002011-10-11T10:41:54.344+01:00I love that rejection letter, Linda, as you know :...I love that rejection letter, Linda, as you know :)<br />Many of our most enduring heroines are not that likable. Perfection isn't what makes interesting characters; humanity is. Think of your closest friends. They all have traits that bring out our inner crabbit, yet we love them as well. Relationships - including those with fictional characters - happen because of a process of bonding, not admiration. That's what the writer has to aim for. <br /><br />To your roll-call of heroines who today would be given the air-brush, let me add Mrs de Winter. What a drip. But I still care deeply about her story.Roz Morris aka @Roz_Morris . Blog: Nail Your Novelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088813423467048081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-11228324839598353922011-10-11T10:37:07.956+01:002011-10-11T10:37:07.956+01:00Oh Linda, this had me practically punching the air...Oh Linda, this had me practically punching the air this morning! I've had that same letter, or something very like it, more than once! And I could add to your list of problematic heroines - Catriona MacGregor in Stevenson's Kidnapped sequel is deeply flawed and often downright irritating (as well as intensely loveable and absolutely real!) While although I love Dickens, just about all his heroines are the least appealing of his creations - although I assume they appealed to him. I tend to read 'round' them and appreciate the books in spite of them! My next two novels, both of them finished, one of them doing the rounds of conventional publishers, and one scheduled for Kindle publication before Christmas, have heroines who are equivocal at best, and I'd always question the readers' need to 'like' them. We have to be interested in them, maybe identify with them. We don't have to assess them as potential candidates for sainthood.Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-87397175521575521772011-10-11T10:11:23.342+01:002011-10-11T10:11:23.342+01:00Brilliant rejection letter, Linda! And I'm wit...Brilliant rejection letter, Linda! And I'm with you - give me prickly and awkward, any day. I'm just having precisely that dilemma myself - my main character is prickly and awkward for good reasons, but my editors think readers won't identify with her ... Hmmm. So I am trying to find that fine line Nicola talks about above.Linda Newberynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-46577071152205973942011-10-11T08:08:54.785+01:002011-10-11T08:08:54.785+01:00Brilliant post, Linda! I couldn't agree more. ...Brilliant post, Linda! I couldn't agree more. However, I think "liking" is a very complex thing in itself. I remember that before my first novel, Mondays are Red, was published, an editor said she found the main character (a boy, in this case) too unlikeable. I didn't know what she meant because I was in his head and it felt personal, but very recently I've been re-reading it while tidying up for my new ebook edition, and I found myself seeing that unattractive element for the first time. I had become the reader, not the writer, the acquaintance and not the emotionally-attached friend. As writers of complex fiction I think we tread a fine line between creating the fascinating character and the unappealing one. Jane Eyre is appealing because of her imperfections but imperfections don't inevitably make an appealing character? This is not to disagree with you - far from it. I totally agree. But I think it's harder and more complex than we often allow ourselves to recognise.Nicola Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12189894289540344094noreply@blogger.com