tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post7857617472275943774..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: Writing Business by Catherine CzerkawskaKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-13246645690214279922013-11-25T14:12:59.500+00:002013-11-25T14:12:59.500+00:00I agree about the way creative writing is taught, ...I agree about the way creative writing is taught, and don't personally think there is much benefit in a CW degree at all. My students are Americans (mostly) who come for a single term in Cambridge and have a crash course in CW, and we do include info on being a writer and we most certainly don't try to push them in any particular creative direction. I agree that there is often a sameness to the work produced by CW students I saw as an RLF fellow. But I still think that £9000 a year is a lot to pay for advice on running a small business! How to do tax, NI, budgeting, tracking your time, negotiating, etc - it's not really academic degree work, is it? Which is not to say there should not be some provision, but I'd be wary of making too much of it as it IS easily available info, and they just need to know they need to know it, surely? If you do an engineering degree, I don't think you get much advice on checking your tax code, applying for jobs, and so on. I'd be wary of making a CW course (any academic degree, in fact) too vocationally biased at the expense of the sort of expertise the students can't get elsewhere afterwards. Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-52948170229174824662013-11-25T14:01:32.765+00:002013-11-25T14:01:32.765+00:00I think you can and should examine students on the...I think you can and should examine students on the principles of running a small business and marketing. And these days musicians and actors are taught this kind of thing on many courses as are actors. To be honest, I have grave doubts over whether you can (or even should) examine people on creative writing. When I was working as an RLF fellow, I had students coming to me occasionally with creative projects as part of my regular one-to-one advice sessions. I was always telling them to 'go away and play with' whatever piece of work they were presenting - and it disturbed me tremendously that they so often replied that they couldn't do that, because they had to 'get it right.' But it DID explain to me why I would often note, when attending readings, the 'sameness' of so much of the work that was presented, as though it was indeed conforming to some notion of pared down 'rightness'. It was the untaught, raw, frequently wordy and undoubtedly 'wrong' work that so often stood out for me. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-62484687014027190242013-11-25T12:28:23.209+00:002013-11-25T12:28:23.209+00:00This is indeed information that creative writing s...This is indeed information that creative writing students need if they plan to support themselves from writing, and it's information I do give my students. I have also given a lecture to Essex MA CW students on some of it, when I was RLF Fellow there. But - this kind of practical business advice is just as relevant to musicians and actors and is not part of those courses either. It's also the sort of info you can get for free (or cheaply) from local enterprise agencies and although it would be nice if universities could offer some support, I'm not sure it is the best use of the £9000 a year. Personally, I think telling them the basics and pointing them towards info elsewhere would be better. You can hardly examine CW students in principles of running a small business. You must examine them on creative writing, which is what they are there to learn. It is a course in writing, not a course on how to live as a writer - big difference.<br /><br />I do absolutely agree that they should have a few sessions on the reality of the job and not have their dreams of big advances and film deals unrealistically sustained, though. Stroppy Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560035800075465845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-13754447046326064592013-11-21T23:19:48.886+00:002013-11-21T23:19:48.886+00:00Oh help! I'm going to talk to Creative Writing...Oh help! I'm going to talk to Creative Writing Students at Glasgow Uni next week, about the benefits of joining the Society of Authors (considerable, as far as I'm concerned!) Maybe I'll tell them about this post as well!Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-12841168933132981102013-11-20T20:05:15.030+00:002013-11-20T20:05:15.030+00:00Gulp, I have just been asked by Essex University &...Gulp, I have just been asked by Essex University "employability" co-ordinator to go and talk with students about their publishing options. I cannot think of anything I'm less suited to do so am procrastinating by sending a link to this blog post instead!julia joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09773900100240758504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-31235393823804135672013-11-18T16:06:33.784+00:002013-11-18T16:06:33.784+00:00True. And I suppose just occasionally one or two D...True. And I suppose just occasionally one or two DO get the advance and the film deal.To be fair, a number of my writer friends manage to combine a successful writing career with a full time teaching career but they are few and far between. It seems as though the considerable demands of the academic world these days make large creative writing projects quite difficult. I've absolutely nothing against people doing creative writing modules for self fulfilment although I would argue that there are much cheaper and far less prescriptive ways of doing it: some excellent week long Arvon courses, for instance, that give you a lot of information in a short but intensive time, several days of tutorials, one to one consultations and some helpful feedback. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-58547055327935947372013-11-18T15:33:20.293+00:002013-11-18T15:33:20.293+00:00Top post Catherine. It has inspired me to do a.ver...Top post Catherine. It has inspired me to do a.version of a post I had planned before amazon helped with us tax exemption. MA creative writing courses can be.v.helpful but many expect five figure advances and film deals as a right.Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-77028341985635123572013-11-18T14:58:33.201+00:002013-11-18T14:58:33.201+00:00Wonderful post, Catherine. And it came along at ju...Wonderful post, Catherine. And it came along at just the right time, since I'd decided recently: in my own three-way tug of war between Accountant, Priest and Entertainer, the latter two alone were actively engaged. I'd come up with a plan for balance. And this post inspires me. Cheers.glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-64003793342170954542013-11-18T14:47:35.127+00:002013-11-18T14:47:35.127+00:00Catherine, I was cheering all the way through! So...Catherine, I was cheering all the way through! Someone had to say it.<br />But the fact is that most of the people going through these creative writing MAs are only going on to teach creative writing themselves - it's a self-perpetuating cycle. I became disillusioned with the whole process during the years I taught it in universities. I'm with Bill on this one.Kathleen Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07645566938871914385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-37919703007298647582013-11-18T11:35:46.599+00:002013-11-18T11:35:46.599+00:00As is popularly agreed, most people have at least ...As is popularly agreed, most people have at least one good novel in them. If this is true then surely the creative writing course should be embarked on as a means to self fulfilment.<br />Not every form of learning should be viewed as a means to financial gain.<br />Al Hartastairnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-18397712046203366052013-11-18T11:23:28.104+00:002013-11-18T11:23:28.104+00:00Brilliant, Catherine. An excellent template for an...Brilliant, Catherine. An excellent template for any university course designers who genuinely desire their courses to be vocational rather than pay lip service to the idea. I know your stress is on the essential practical skills needed but it also highlights the worrying gap that's so often evident between the hermetic world of academia and the lives lived by the rest of us.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-45296593750520082812013-11-18T10:48:15.153+00:002013-11-18T10:48:15.153+00:00Susan, I'm not sure creative writing can be ta...Susan, I'm not sure creative writing can be taught either. Here's the inimitable Joseph Epstein on the subject: 'After thirty years of teaching a university course in something called advanced prose style, my accumulated wisdom on the subject, inspissated into a single thought, is that writing cannot be taught, though it can be learned...'<br /><br />;-)<br /><br />Link: http://www.newcriterion.com/articleprint.cfm/Heavy-sentences-7053Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-61948544610999251302013-11-18T10:45:20.505+00:002013-11-18T10:45:20.505+00:00Glad you agree so far, Nick and Sue. And Lee, that...Glad you agree so far, Nick and Sue. And Lee, that's a very good question. There must be some courses that do offer modules in this kind of thing, but maybe somebody out there will let us know. They're not obvious. Although I had a quick gallop through various online course prospectuses when I was writing this,(and found very little of a practical nature) the last time I looked at this kind of thing in any great detail was when my son was looking at courses but that was about ten years ago. What struck me then was how very much out of date even the journalism courses were, with their talk of newsrooms and jobs in an industry that was already changing beyond all recognition. I hope they've changed and improved over the past decade. I feel that basic self employment skills are at least transferable! Most writers I know spend some of their working lives being employed and self employed at the same time, or running a business on the side. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27664026284878329352013-11-18T10:23:42.301+00:002013-11-18T10:23:42.301+00:00I second both Lee and Nick. I think this is such a...I second both Lee and Nick. I think this is such a good post, Catherine.<br /><br />I learned the hard way - starting at 18 - about self-employed NI payments, 'Small Claims Exemption', Accounts, tax returns - and about how very, very little help you're entitled to as a self-employed small business proprietor, even if you've paid a lot in tax during the good years.<br /><br />I'm not at all sure that 'creative writing' can be taught, but a solid grounding in running a small business certainly can, and would be incredibly useful.<br />Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-72498522936221861452013-11-18T09:53:46.857+00:002013-11-18T09:53:46.857+00:00Such good points that words fail me. One needs to ...Such good points that words fail me. One needs to be at least as good a business person as one is a writer, in order to make a living at it. Which is perhaps one of the reasons why I don't!<br /><br />I don't think I'd have been rash enough to opt for a creative writing degree even in those long-lost days of free tuition AND student grants for living costs. Even in a comparative utopia, I was at heart a realist.Nick Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08191176209084540085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-72433351322045897502013-11-18T08:42:37.873+00:002013-11-18T08:42:37.873+00:00I have no idea what these creative writing courses...I have no idea what these creative writing courses entail, but since most future writers will end up not making their living from fiction, perhaps they should also be introduced to all the other sorts of professional writing out there. Or is this also included in such courses?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.com