tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post9005106577479371867..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: Why Ruth Graham Is Dead Wrong - By Lev ButtsKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-26405632208333055482015-07-10T08:43:10.897+01:002015-07-10T08:43:10.897+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09020286770274242994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-2220142610552571792015-07-01T01:59:34.528+01:002015-07-01T01:59:34.528+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03511223290658197833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-84929415456625929062014-11-20T12:04:36.482+00:002014-11-20T12:04:36.482+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Amberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05369099374413108635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-83860091178790881602014-06-29T03:13:52.947+01:002014-06-29T03:13:52.947+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718428473859377978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27807032170002678822014-06-24T13:56:21.399+01:002014-06-24T13:56:21.399+01:00Nick, some will always do something. That's no...Nick, some will always do something. That's not social criticism.<br /><br />Don't you find it noteworthy -- and at least in my own case, of concern -- that an ever more ageing society is staking claim to the books written for its teens?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-21937037685818284682014-06-24T13:32:11.840+01:002014-06-24T13:32:11.840+01:00i tried a kampfing holiday down a mein once, but t...i tried a kampfing holiday down a mein once, but the coaldust got in the sausages.Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-64065060719927507962014-06-24T10:23:04.323+01:002014-06-24T10:23:04.323+01:00Some will read excellent literature.
Some will rea...Some will read excellent literature.<br />Some will read excellent YA literature.<br />Some will read YA trash.<br />Some will leave home and go and join ISIS.<br />Some will read Mein Kampf.<br />Some will embrace its message.<br />Some will read the sequel, 'Mein Kampfing Holiday', a hilarious account of Nazi hijinks on one rainy Bank Holiday escapade.<br /><br />It's a big world.Nick Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08191176209084540085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-91950074729181001962014-06-23T18:19:24.569+01:002014-06-23T18:19:24.569+01:00I ought to add that that there are probably a numb...I ought to add that that there are probably a number of reasons why so many adults are reading YA novels - not just for a good story, for example, though this undoubtedly plays a role, but also as a result of our attitudes towards youthfulness and ageing.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-30149478948632450262014-06-23T17:41:40.903+01:002014-06-23T17:41:40.903+01:00I have to admit, that while I, too, would rather t...I have to admit, that while I, too, would rather the world not be run by folks who read, say, only the Bible, if given the choice between being ruled by those folks and being ruled by people who read absolutely nothing and get their intellectual stimulation only from American Idol and Keeping Up with the Kardashians, I'd choose the bible thumper.<br /><br />I do believe that any reading is better than no reading at all.<br /><br />But admittedly, I'm a lit professor, so I may be a tad biased.Leverett Buttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05822160835689818255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-80280124477225821662014-06-23T17:35:45.191+01:002014-06-23T17:35:45.191+01:00Jan, I'm a terrible cynic. I believe most peop...Jan, I'm a terrible cynic. I believe most people are terminally suggestible - here as elsewhere, I'll dare to add.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-38771921720468458702014-06-23T17:31:56.769+01:002014-06-23T17:31:56.769+01:00Sue, you said:
'Follow your interests. You...Sue, you said:<br /><br />'Follow your interests. You'll come on some very challenging books. You'll find yourself becoming bored with the easiest. You'll develop critical muscle. Go your own way.'<br /><br />But that is precisely my question: do adults who read only (or mostly, perhaps) stuff that isn't challenging become bored - develop critical muscle - or merely read more of the same?<br /><br />Chris, I didn't say readers who who read for a good story should seek elsewhere - only that the need for a good story can't be used as an argument for the primacy of reading.<br /><br />'What does it matter as long as folks are reading'. Well, I happen to feel that it <i>does</i> matter. I would prefer the world to be run by people who don't read only the Bild Zeitung - let me see, what's the UK equivalent? Daily Mail?<br /><br />(And no, I'm not claiming that YA lit is the equihvalent of the DM. But yes, I do think it odd that there are adults who read mainly YA lit. Life doesn't stop at 20.)<br />Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-17121851195901553082014-06-23T17:08:13.885+01:002014-06-23T17:08:13.885+01:00Chris, the omnly book I ever stole from a bookstor...Chris, the omnly book I ever stole from a bookstore was Mein Kampf. I took it home, read about a quarter of it, gave up, and got caught trying to put it back on the bookstore shelf.Leverett Buttshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05822160835689818255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-78811476858825400712014-06-23T16:38:42.680+01:002014-06-23T16:38:42.680+01:00I love YA fiction. I rather enjoyed The Fault in O...I love YA fiction. I rather enjoyed The Fault in Our Stars (my 18 year old thought it was rubbish). But then there *was* no YA when I was a teenager. Beyond Nancy Drew it was straight into Heinlein & Wyndham.<br /><br />I read anything that looks interesting. I don't do labels.Debbie Bennetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06761474820689143835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70202108892369668362014-06-23T15:08:52.907+01:002014-06-23T15:08:52.907+01:00purely on a point of order, madame la chaisehomme ...purely on a point of order, madame la chaisehomme (i'm in france, and the heat's boiling my brain), if mein kampf is unreadable, how come so many people not only read it, but let it alter or mould their lives? i think we might need to rethink the power and place of fantasy-lit, especially for YAs and the terminally suggestible. and another thing - mein kampf is still selling. food for thought? excusez moi, mon verre est vide encore. toodle pip (comme disent les francais...whoops! pardon)Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-1943418961087089252014-06-23T13:15:45.143+01:002014-06-23T13:15:45.143+01:00Yeah! What's wrong with reading simply for ple...Yeah! What's wrong with reading simply for pleasure? madwippitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02595748471651052552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-49730053961306872772014-06-23T13:00:48.799+01:002014-06-23T13:00:48.799+01:00Perfect timing. Am about halfway through a wonderf...Perfect timing. Am about halfway through a wonderful book by Sue Price and am loving it. By the page, my conviction had grown that we need to break down the barriers that block YA novels this good from contending for major awards. In Sue's case, the fantastical story is perfectly balanced by very 'adult' mastery of rhythm, structure, rhetoric, etc. Great writing, period, damn the age categorization.glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-52412216335873089422014-06-23T12:34:10.804+01:002014-06-23T12:34:10.804+01:00I'm in the same situation, Catherine. And I ag...I'm in the same situation, Catherine. And I agree, Mein Kampf is totally unreadable.Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-34755613357117108712014-06-23T12:20:26.934+01:002014-06-23T12:20:26.934+01:00I cannot tell a lie. I did attempt to read Mein Ka...I cannot tell a lie. I did attempt to read Mein Kampf at one point, purely for research purposes, but I can report that it is totally unreadable. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-40575114059638733222014-06-23T12:03:42.443+01:002014-06-23T12:03:42.443+01:00Lev, a great post, fun and ranty, and I love your ...Lev, a great post, fun and ranty, and I love your signature use of pics and captions. There are lots of brilliant YA books which are just as satisfying for adults, in fact the only real differences are less violence, naff all sex and young protagonists, but that's fine now and again! The Just William books I recently reread, and it's hard to believe they were written for children, the sophisticated vocabulary and yes, social commentary are very adult, yet children (including my father as a boy) loved them from the start. So funny! I love Swallows and Amazons books which are my default comfort read if ill. Lots more I still enjoy and value. I too was an inveterate reader of sauce bottles and cereal packets, and I don't think it matters what people read, or even whether they read, it's up to them, and I resent people making anyone feel bad about their reading choices (apart from Mein Kampf perhaps) Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-66258258169236907102014-06-23T11:46:58.755+01:002014-06-23T11:46:58.755+01:00Forgot to say I've read most of the books feat...Forgot to say I've read most of the books featured in the column with the exception of the first one, and Mein Kampf! And I too, like Terry Pratchett, he's been a favourite for a long time. I agree with the statement - 'What does it matter as long as folks are reading'.Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-2130235468462575372014-06-23T11:41:15.773+01:002014-06-23T11:41:15.773+01:00Lee, you seem to be suggesting that to read a book...Lee, you seem to be suggesting that to read a book only for the story, then 'readers' or should I say people, should seek their stories elsewhere rather than in the pages of a book! Surely, as writers, we should welcome all kind of readers including those who only like a good story!<br /><br />As for myself, I read on all kinds of levels. For relaxation I read a good story, something with pace and suspense, a page turner. For my research I read nonfiction, I'm currently reading a book about Sylvia Pankhurst. I have studied subjects at university level and have the degree to prove it.<br /><br />However, there is one type of book I might be liable to throw in the bin, and that is literature with a capital L, the kind of book with no story, no plot, and where nothing much happens, because apart from the beautiful writing and turn of phrase, I find a lot of these books to be pretentious.<br /><br />I'll stick with the good story, at least it won't send me to sleep.Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-222489908112228912014-06-23T11:02:39.308+01:002014-06-23T11:02:39.308+01:00Oh Nick, you articulated precisely what I was thin...Oh Nick, you articulated precisely what I was thinking! I learned my first French from reading HP sauce bottles - sadly, the French description of 'this high quality sauce' isn't there any more. Lev, couldn't agree with you more. And with the increasing sameness of so much traditionally published 'adult' fiction these days, the place where there seems to be real depths and experimentation going on is so often in YA. I've seen Graham's piece before - it was reblogged on The Passive Voice where it got short shrift as the clickbait it undoubtedly is. But Lev has demolished it beautifully. Most of these labels - and trad pub is becoming increasingly prescriptive - seem to be aimed at branding rather than anything else. But you shouldn't then use them to berate adults for what they can and can't read. Besides, many people, young and old, who enjoy books, read different kinds of books at different times. If I'm knackered and fed up, I'm more likely to reread the Wind in the Willows or a volume of William Brown stories than anything else. But that isn't what I read all the time. I know lots of people who feel exactly the same. And the fact remains that what I enjoy reading is nobody else's business but mine. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-6710938825226795682014-06-23T10:43:19.317+01:002014-06-23T10:43:19.317+01:00Lee, everyone bows down before the great Shakespea...Lee, everyone bows down before the great Shakespeare, but Shakespeare had 'a limited perspective' and 'followed certain conventions.' Compare, for instance, his 'Merchant of Venice' and Marlowe's 'Jew of Malta.' I would argue that Marlowe's play, though casting the Jew as a villain, is arguably less anti-semetic than Shakespeare - certainly less 'vonventionally' so.<br />'The Bard' also uncritically upheld the political system of his day.<br />Our present day 'literary fiction' also follows its own conventions and has its own limited perspective. How can it not? We're all of our time. Even when we think we're bucking it, we're still within it.<br />Not everybody likes books and reading. (Pause for present audience to absorb this shocking fact.) Those who don't are probably never going to read anything more than easy, light 'airplane' fiction, to while away a few hours. They just don't want to read much.<br />The rest of us - well, sometimes we're up for a challenge, and sometimes we feel like taking it easy. But that isn't to say that the 'easy' choices are rubbish. I will often turn to Pratchett when I'm feeling a bit low or off-colour - but although entertaining and easy to read, his books are often sharply critical of our age, and can be read on more than one level.<br />So I don't think that setting up some elitist barrier between 'good' and 'bad' books, or between 'children's books' and 'adult books' is at all helpful, to anybody. If you like reading, then read the books you like and enjoy. Read fiction and non-fiction, classic and modern, children's and adult. Follow your interests. You'll come on some very challenging books. You'll find yourself becoming bored with the easiest. You'll develop critical muscle. Go your own way.<br /><br />Come on Lee, surely you can't disagree with going your own way?Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-24799971274123364852014-06-23T10:41:21.959+01:002014-06-23T10:41:21.959+01:00Let people read cereal packets if they want to. Th...Let people read cereal packets if they want to. This isn't freakin' North Korea.<br /><br />Nick Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08191176209084540085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-51832705533672535552014-06-23T10:34:14.209+01:002014-06-23T10:34:14.209+01:00Yes, Lev, this is a great post. Thank you. I'm...Yes, Lev, this is a great post. Thank you. I'm sorry if my ensuing comment sounds like a grinding axe, but that's just how it is. I have the third edition of the Guardian Dictionary of Publishing and Printing (A & C Black, 2006) open in front of me as I write and their definition of a Young Adult Book is as follows: 'a book written for adults but considered suitable for adolescents.' That seems to be about right, though many would think it's the wrong way round. I don't think 'suitable for adolescents' necessarily implies any diminution of subject or scope or any immaturity in the author's mind. Well for some young adult writers I suppose the first two qualities may, though the third doesn't, despite what one or two critics have publicly said. <br /><br />It doesn't apply to our Sue or our Jan, I think. Nor for a writer like, for example, Meg Rosoff. And not, to take one at random,for a writer like Mal Peet, who, though he is published by Walker, an avowedly children's publisher, writes novels which could be shortlisted for the Booker. If you doubt me, just read his 'Keeper', the most brilliant and profound novel which, though it's about football, gets nearer to the roots of humanity than almost any book I know. And his 'Tamar', his 'Exposure' and his 'Life, an Exploded Diagram'. I could make a list. Read Linda Newbery's 'Set in Stone' and tell me in what way that isn't an adult novel which once again goes to places many, many 'proper' writers wouldn't dare to even though it won the children's book section of The Costa Prize. Didn't Mark Haddon's 'Curious Incident' actually go on to win the big one? I don't want to continue with this list because this comment would never end. <br /><br />I was known as a children's writer because that's how I started and that's what I was. But I remember Cally's review of my 'Spirit of the Place', which appeared in both IEBR and Eclectic Electric, and her discussion about what constitutes an 'adult' as opposed to a 'young adult' book. I think any author who tries to write serious young adult books would tell you that they don't trim their sensibilities to suit the market. In fact most of the time they don't think of their market. I'm remarketing 'Spirit of the Place','Out of the Mouths of Babes', Ellen's People' and 'Divided Loyalties' as adult books because that's what I think they are. Scholastic and Walker published them as young adult books so that's how they are defined. The only sops, I think, to suitability for the young adult sensibility, if in fact there is such a thing, is that there's only the merest smidgeon of explicit sex and some of the characters are young. So what? I hope the generous AE reviewers of 'Spirit' and 'Babes' didn't consciously lower their sights as they read. <br /><br />It is, I'm convinced, a false distinction and has meant that so many of us have been banished to the children's departments of Waterstones and company where our potential readers wouldn't be seen dead. It's about time that we YA authors weren't regarded by some critics as big kids with arrested development.<br /><br />Rant over.<br />Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.com