tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post5382171954687816709..comments2024-03-17T11:17:53.826+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: FATAL FLAWS by Catherine CzerkawskaKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-25656189813957885652014-08-19T21:46:16.201+01:002014-08-19T21:46:16.201+01:00Third line from the end should read: Turned out th...Third line from the end should read: Turned out the agent weighed...glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-45063141047816796932014-08-19T21:43:55.812+01:002014-08-19T21:43:55.812+01:00I wonder how often personal 'issues' lie b...I wonder how often personal 'issues' lie behind rejections. In an early draft of my book Southern Scotch, I'd had the fallen athletic hero weigh 300-plus pounds at the start. Just for 50 pages till he takes a near-fatal beating, then comes back years later rich and thin, hell-bent on revenge. I believed readers could handle his weight if I showed him dreaming of a comeback...someday--then beat him into action mode. Well: one agent took a violent reaction and said my guy's weight was so disgusting that no reader could handle it for even 50 pages. Turned out the agent weight close 350 pounds. I refused to sell out but compromised a little by not specifying Pete McGregor's actual weight..and reducing his excess poundage to 30 pounds or so. The agent still found it disgusting.glitter noirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11728649916344336118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-13383587965239080812014-08-19T18:08:00.560+01:002014-08-19T18:08:00.560+01:00You're right! And that's exactly the assum...You're right! And that's exactly the assumption she made. I don't like him, so neither will anyone else. In this case, of course, it didn't matter. But if she had been an acquisitions editor, it would have mattered a lot. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-31597582963403537002014-08-19T14:58:39.524+01:002014-08-19T14:58:39.524+01:00What worries me is that ex editor's assumption...What worries me is that ex editor's assumption that William WAS unlikeable, as a 'fact' - not that SHE didn't like him which would have been fair enough. She assumed you'd have to struggle to write him because she couldn't warm to him. That's the kind of blinkered thinking we can do without in publishers or editors, who think their own personal opinions are facts which must be shared by all the readers they hope to sell to. Jane Austen makes a point of saying she invented Emma to see if she could create a heroine people didn't like - though in fact Emma is popular, not because she's nice, but because of her flaws and blindness to situations and her tendency to 'think rather too well of herself'. She's a great character. Dennis, I just performed a poem of mine on satan and god in Paradise Lost the other night - I had a crush on Satan and found god a poor character, William Blake rightly realised that Milton was struggling to explain and justify a character against far too many odds - he was 'in shackles'. Lydia Bennethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328239009863878547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-60825410368701977012014-08-18T16:20:17.344+01:002014-08-18T16:20:17.344+01:00Anti heroes are often far more attractive and inte...Anti heroes are often far more attractive and interesting - Edgar the nice boy or Edmund the bastard? :-)madwippitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02595748471651052552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-43095249508636072162014-08-18T15:52:23.265+01:002014-08-18T15:52:23.265+01:00Interesting that she's of the old school, Cath...Interesting that she's of the old school, Catherine. Spurred by this thread I've been thinking about readers' reactions to characters in novels. I meet a lot of people in novels who I recognise as deeply unlikeable, even evil. I may hate the qualities they represent but I'm deeply interested in how the author demonstrates them. If it's done well then I catch the character's aura of repellence and accept them much as I appreciate the paintings of Francis Bacon or Heironymous Bosch. But to say I hate the character for his or her own sake as if they lived next door is puerile. The depiction of evil may be disturbing but it's also an aesthetic element in the novel. Only in Jasper fforde might the character actually turn up in your house and kill you. Until that happens you don't have the right to dislike them as actual people.Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-88990718460386913662014-08-18T14:06:55.775+01:002014-08-18T14:06:55.775+01:00Personally I found William extremely likeable, Cat...Personally I found William extremely likeable, Catherine, though as you say it's probably simply down to taste. In any case, I prefer characters with flaws, failings and rough edges. That is what real people are like, in my experience: complicated, and often contradictory.Mari Biellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14221256993468150226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-57540277996433117012014-08-18T13:01:37.590+01:002014-08-18T13:01:37.590+01:00This was an older editor, now retired. (Not my rec...This was an older editor, now retired. (Not my recent editor who was excellent.) But maybe people become complacent if they reach a stage of seniority where nobody challenges them. Her response did make me think about 'likeability' and the times I've encountered it as an issue in the past. And I begin to wonder if this is something women experience more than men as a response to their fiction. Surely not! It does, as Cally points out, lead on to a wider debate about what constitutes 'good' fiction and why we may need to challenge the ways in which people sometimes judge both readers and writers on what they enjoy. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-60218485813858195672014-08-18T12:19:26.134+01:002014-08-18T12:19:26.134+01:00I don't see the point of writing fiction at al...I don't see the point of writing fiction at all if you're not allowed to have characters who are flawed. It's the flawed characters who make the stories work. Their 'likeability' doesn't depend on the flaws. In 'Paradise Lost', Satan is a great character. God is so perfect as to be absolutely horrible. I've never been told any of my characters are 'unlikeable'. I'm rather sad about that. Surely the unlikeable characters are the very stuff of fiction. For an editor to say that she doesn't 'like' William is appalling, especially when it's used as a reason to dismiss a whole novel. William is among the most attractive, sensitively drawn<br />fictional characters I have ever encountered. This is why I'm so distressed about the present state of publishing. The older generation of editors with insight, critical acumen and objectivity are fast dying out, to be replaced by shallow people who lack empathy and understanding, have little knowledge of how novels work and, more importantly, how people read them, who are afraid of their own shadows and in dread of marketing. The old values of serious publishing do still exist - exemplified by people like Caroline Royds and David Fickling. But they won't last for ever so we must cherish them while they are still here.Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-54468146667196527402014-08-18T11:16:16.475+01:002014-08-18T11:16:16.475+01:00T'was ever thus... by strange co-incidence tod...T'was ever thus... by strange co-incidence today's S.R.Crockett serial opens with a tongue in cheek dedication which deals to some degree with this issue... and that was in 1897... so some things never change. <br />he writes: To write that which is in one’s heart at the moment is the only rule <br /><br />I think we'd do well to remember that! <br /><br />and you can find the whole thing at www.edebookfest.co.uk or here <br />http://wp.me/p4dGXP-2I<br /><br />Plus, of course, plenty more interesting reading at week 3 of the ebook festival. Get it while you can. CallyPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481379296340077102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-78422132195285886122014-08-18T10:53:47.682+01:002014-08-18T10:53:47.682+01:00I invariably prefer flawed characters, and I too h...I invariably prefer flawed characters, and I too have had rejections based on unlikeable characters, and yet, these books seem to be popular. Who on earth wants to read about a character with no flaws whatsoever. It's not realistic - Oh, but I forgot - we write fiction and that's as far away from being realistic that it's possible to be. :)Chris Longmuirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02488093821886798927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-7840519435545045202014-08-18T09:43:35.873+01:002014-08-18T09:43:35.873+01:00To begin with, I think I said in my review how sym...To begin with, I think I said in my review how sympathetic I found William - he's a great character and his nature is essential to how the book works. The only thing I'd add is that I sometimes find myself liking or admiring one of my characters too much and, as a consequence, worry about rendering them too 'nice' to be entirely convincing. Whenever I become aware of that, I pause, make myself look at them more objectively and invariably can find some flaw that humanises them.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16345949773423764808noreply@blogger.com