tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post6550566404848247756..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: A message from Scrooge By Jan NeedleKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-72062013928089060232011-12-15T23:20:44.238+00:002011-12-15T23:20:44.238+00:00God what a fast-moving thread. Thanbks to Julia fo...God what a fast-moving thread. Thanbks to Julia for facebooking it, and Jan, how wise and realistic. I only know one way of making a living from writing, which is what I do - get paid for turning up and writing what's needed. Remarkably satisfying and pleasurable to the compulsive wordsmith, and always a privilege, greater or lesser depending on your level of interest in what's needed. Though I have to admit it stifles the creative wellsprings, if any. Discuss...Peter Willishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05740130652553079391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-59380503741499503992011-12-15T18:16:18.902+00:002011-12-15T18:16:18.902+00:00that would be really useful, dan, thanks. i'll...that would be really useful, dan, thanks. i'll get back to you.Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-50891340201619587682011-12-15T17:28:02.742+00:002011-12-15T17:28:02.742+00:00Wow, love the look of that! I'd be happy to pu...Wow, love the look of that! I'd be happy to push him the way of some of the more visible places in the online crime fiction world in the New Year.Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-45749208279804157452011-12-15T16:13:35.750+00:002011-12-15T16:13:35.750+00:00i've got nothing against pollyannas, dan, alth...i've got nothing against pollyannas, dan, altho i never drove a derrida - a lambretta 125 was the height of my post modernism. (and boy, was the lambretta 125 post modern. not far post stone age, actually) similarly, re pangloss, i never was much interested in gardening, and i never had to struggle with the belief thing, as both my parents were passionate atheists.<br /><br />that there are happy experiences to be had as a writing 'teacher' i have no problem with at all, though. an ex CID man who was in one of my 'classes' has just put his first novel up on kindle, and it's an eye-opener. it's completely unlike any detective book i've ever read (i'm a constant reader of them) and it absolutely reeks authenticity. i couldn't persuade him to slow down and try the usual weary publication channels, however, so even enthusiasm can be dangerous - i fear the ebook technicals may be a bit ragged. do try it though (only about £1). it's called No Place for Dinosaurs, by John Morrison.Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-73069410055651586762011-12-15T15:31:19.017+00:002011-12-15T15:31:19.017+00:00Jan, people have suggested I change my name to Pol...Jan, people have suggested I change my name to Pollyanna or Pangloss :D I think my ridiculous optimism comes from a mix of kicking off against the Protestant parts of a theology degree, a hopeless desire for some kind of communist-anarchist worldview to be right, and the kind of bipolar that means when I'm up I want to hug everyone and when I'm down I need to hug everyone because otherwise I'd be too terrified to leave the house. All mixed in with too much Derrida at college that has left me seeing a Rationalist progress of the spirit as some kind of inherent counterweight to entropy.<br /><br />To see the full weight of my bonkersly idealistic mindset at work, here's a piece I wrote as part of Guy Gonzalez' (of Digital Book World) #digitaldivide series two and a half years ago http://agnieszkasshoes.blogspot.com/2009/08/from-pitch-to-perpetuationof-privilege.html<br /><br />I should add that I spent 6 years teaching, albeit at a retake college not a regular school, and ended up more not less optmistic. Call me Polly :)Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-79732954185823441142011-12-15T13:52:06.591+00:002011-12-15T13:52:06.591+00:00One of the reasons I feel uncomfortable "teac...One of the reasons I feel uncomfortable "teaching" writing is, I sometimes think the complexity and originality of what I read could be a hindrance to publication. The narrative predictability and stereotypical characterisation that I would attempt to weed out of a manuscript in workshop conditions is the very bread & butter of commercial adult fiction. I find myself instructing students to find their own voice, knowing that editors are actively looking for the next Dan Brown, Lee Child or Katie Fforde.<br /><br />Call me cynical/jaded/disppointed/negative if you will, but I see teaching writing as something wholly divorced from <i>publishing</i>. (And maybe it should be!) When presented with an excellent but much-rejected ms and a student's request to explain where s/he's gone wrong, I've been known to say (and it's meant to be encouraging), "Do bear in mind, your novel might be too good to find a publisher."Linda Gillardhttp://www.lindagillard.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-61872007553707495602011-12-15T13:06:28.860+00:002011-12-15T13:06:28.860+00:00thanks everyone for your thoughts. it was hard to ...thanks everyone for your thoughts. it was hard to write and still a tad confused. dan's obviously a more optimistic person than i am, and probably a nicer one. but excitement's never lighted on my shoulders in a writer group. i've been pleased and delighted sometimes, but it's usually been offset by the worrying necessity of constructive comment, which can take the gilt off the gingerbread. occasionally one is able to say 'that's fantastic, unimproveable,'but it remains a hard job and my worry still lurks. i was writer in residence at a school in yorkshire for two years once, and had a terrific time. productive too, i thought. most of the teachers absolutely hated me.<br /><br />note to dennis (in case he doesn't go back to read added comments on his piece.) dennis, go back to your piece. i've added a comment! RLS rules OK.Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-50920453346172180332011-12-15T11:13:18.098+00:002011-12-15T11:13:18.098+00:00So true, Catherine. Funnily enough I'm current...So true, Catherine. Funnily enough I'm currently writing my usual year-end blog post and it's just caleld "play". I don't think anyone's writing ever got worse by playing more. Not playing closes off the possibilitythat you may find something you enjoy even more, or are even better at. Like when the police stop looking for suspects because they have one that fits the bill. Only when the police do that they get strung up in the appeals court, but like you say too often when writers behave like it, it gets called "being professional". Funny old world.Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-70071921512536195022011-12-15T10:45:23.411+00:002011-12-15T10:45:23.411+00:00Thanks for getting my day off to the right start, ...Thanks for getting my day off to the right start, by making me smile and making me think! It always amazes me how many people who should know better think that all writers are on JKR's rates of pay. And it worries me that so many undergraduate creative writing courses (the postgrad Masters courses are better) seem to be sold to young people on the promise that they can 'make a living from writing.' But I love Dan's point that the really exciting bit is helping people to find a voice for what's inside them, even if it's never going to be marketable in the conventional sense. <br />I remember going to a wonderful event here in Ayrshire - poet Sheila Templeton had been working on a one-to-one basis, with a group of parents, and grandparents as a sort of writer in residence to a toddler group - the resulting poems about the children, mostly from people who had never written before, were moving, heartfelt, beautiful. One of the best set of readings I had ever experienced, and that includes professional poets and writers!<br />Once I get into it, I always find that I love interacting with people - especially on a one-to-one basis - and essentially trying to free them to play with words and ideas - I find myself saying that all the time -'just play about with it.' Sadly, and especially in a university setting, the rejoinder is often 'but we're not supposed to play. We have to get it right.' And that's sad.Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-32847169956895392912011-12-15T10:22:32.336+00:002011-12-15T10:22:32.336+00:00PS and yes, I expect most of us who do school visi...PS and yes, I expect most of us who do school visits have come across that sort of attitude from teachers. In my case, because I used to teach English myself, there's sometimes an implication that I've somehow cheated the system by escaping.<br /><br />But that teacher you met was unusually rude and arrogant. Luckily, there are plenty of good and appreciative ones, to compensate.<br /><br />However, I should be writing, not blogging.Linda Newberynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-53708014778333216582011-12-15T10:22:08.646+00:002011-12-15T10:22:08.646+00:00coming at things as a non career writer, or perhap...coming at things as a non career writer, or perhaps as a poet or performer, or perhaps just as an ornery old bugger, I see teaching writing as a vital, political act. It may also be to do with having studied theology at a time when Liberation Theology was still a vibrant new force, bringing with it a practical (blimey, how rarely do you here the word praxis bandied around in daily conversation now - a decade or so ago you'd use it every day) agenda of conscientization, empowerment through practical articulacy.<br /><br />That, to me, is what it means to teach writing - enabling the voiceless to give voice to their inner lives and hopes and angers and aspirations. And being part, any part, of something so empowering is spine-tinglingly exciting. I think that's why I'm drawn so much to performance - because of the way it can inspire those who see literature as "not for them" - and get so excited by the workshopping projects run by slam groups. It also reflects my (idiosyncratic and decidedly "these views are those of the author only") opinions on what writing is - taking what is at the heart of what's inside us and externalising it, and is not - producing marketable books. Writing is the personal political personified, and that makes teaching another person to write a spinetinglingly exciting, important thing to do. and it can take many forms - even bringing your work to those who are unfamiliar with literature can be teaching - showing them "this can be for me". <br /><br />In which spirit I'll leave you this link to Kate Tempest, the best poet writing today, performing Renegade. I was lucky enough to hear her headlining Hammer and Tongue earlier this week and she finished her set with this. I can't remember the last time a performance made me cry so much with inspiration and joy. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI9eKlaFIeoDan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-49033980102246200132011-12-15T09:26:47.058+00:002011-12-15T09:26:47.058+00:00Wonderful post, Jan. And brave, I thought.
I feel...Wonderful post, Jan. And brave, I thought.<br /><br />I feel very uncomfortable "teaching" in workshops. (I have to put it in quotes because I'm not convinced you <i>can</i> teach writing. I think you can teach editing.) So at the beginning of each workshop I announce that I can only teach people to write as I write. It feels like a horrible admission of failure, but at least it's honest.<br /><br />I once had a rather thrusting young woman in a workshop who kicked off by asking how much money she could make as a writer. (She was clearly expecting me to pronounce a number with a lot of noughts.) I'm afraid I laughed and said that unless she was extremely lucky, she'd earn more pursuing a career cleaning toilets.<br /><br />Fortunately I've come to terms with the fact that <br />a) I write because I have to, not because I want to <br />b) writing is its own reward (which, given the remuneration, is just as well.)Linda Gillardhttp://www.lindagillard.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-5044925829626785902011-12-15T08:43:48.391+00:002011-12-15T08:43:48.391+00:00Jan, I've met that teacher! More than once, an...Jan, I've met that teacher! More than once, and he's not always teaching... Brilliant post.Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-75358404698307238852011-12-15T07:35:18.872+00:002011-12-15T07:35:18.872+00:00What a fascinating post, Jan. There is so much wri...What a fascinating post, Jan. There is so much writing being taught now, in MA courses and the like, and they all treat writing as if it's a career. Well, it can be a career, but it doesn't follow any kind of predictable career path. And there is always that tension between writing to make a living and going where your instincts take you. It would be possible to be in the position of having written something commercially successful that didn't give you the slightest satisfaction.<br /><br />But I should be working, not blogging ...Linda Newberynoreply@blogger.com