tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post8134949243472952618..comments2024-03-26T23:41:10.319+00:00Comments on Authors Electric: The Stigma of Self-publishing now Comes with a Smiley Face - by Dan HollowayKatherine Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17196712319655603442noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-27840864196440149662012-10-20T11:08:02.129+01:002012-10-20T11:08:02.129+01:00That's exactly the dilemma I was talking about...That's exactly the dilemma I was talking about. I think that's why I make a point of saying right at the start of talking about writing or self-publishing that the very first thing we must do is answer the "why do I write? What do I want? What will I stand for?" questions and then stick them in bold capitals to the wall. The thing is that what seem like opportunities are both piecemeal and subtle - they don't scream "distraction", certainly no single one does. In fact they scream "do this and it will aid the actual goal" - it's only with hindsight that we look with horror at the extent to which we've deviated off course and not even realised it, so I would advocate hypervigilance. Be honest about each opportunity that comes along and ask, honestly, how it fits with the bold type on the wall.Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-55089163561234373282012-10-20T09:55:23.070+01:002012-10-20T09:55:23.070+01:00A very pertinent post Dan. I'm having a debate...A very pertinent post Dan. I'm having a debate in my head right now because in certain spheres I'm being called upon to be the 'self-publishing blogger' or be on a panel re: self-publishing but what I really want to do more than anything is write good books and read good books, talk about short stories, think about good writing and promote writing that I've enjoyed. I'm concerned about that stigma versus the reputation/visibility that it's possible to achieve in the writing community here in Ireland. What I mean is that if I become (slightly) known for something I want it to be the writing. In my case there are issues of time too. I don't mind sharing the self-publishing story but the writing & books have to come first. Putting the time into being a self-publishing expert might jeopardize that.Alison Wellshttp://www.alisonwells.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-48044159278082699572012-10-18T11:40:41.440+01:002012-10-18T11:40:41.440+01:00:):)Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-20301866365077546522012-10-18T10:56:35.773+01:002012-10-18T10:56:35.773+01:00A lengthy debate, and an excellent article. Not w...A lengthy debate, and an excellent article. Not wanting to add to any of this apart from to say I read it too, I was here, I'd just say thank you, Dan.Pauline Fiskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826696982301252524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-83468968883010604882012-10-16T19:44:51.519+01:002012-10-16T19:44:51.519+01:00Lee, I think, sadly, you're right. If we do pe...Lee, I think, sadly, you're right. If we do persuade people (especially reviewers/those in the media) to look at our work, a whole raft of tighter criteria will be applied than would to a regularly published book - as if they're saying "go on, then, prove it"Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-63524851853728171772012-10-16T19:16:53.416+01:002012-10-16T19:16:53.416+01:00If I gave talks on self-publishing (which I don...If I gave talks on self-publishing (which I don't and won't, mostly because I won't give talks on <i>anything</i> - and yes, I've been asked), I'd probably not use examples from my own writing but from the best self-published books I could find, and with as much diversity as possible (genre, style, culture, etc.). At this stage, we not only need to take ourselves seriously as artists (hurray for the right priority, Dan!) but probably need to be <i>better</i> artists than the average conventionally published writer. In time, this will change - or so I hope. Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-78399641803339901452012-10-16T18:43:21.327+01:002012-10-16T18:43:21.327+01:00a writers' event with no wine? Good heavens!a writers' event with no wine? Good heavens!Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-76671301603599411712012-10-16T18:24:21.388+01:002012-10-16T18:24:21.388+01:00St Giles? Oh God, please say it's not at the...St Giles? Oh God, please say it's not at the Friends' House. No wine there on pain of death. Still, Bird and Baby very close. Sue,of course it should go without saying. I don't believe the mantra I attributed to others. Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-56271249487260763322012-10-16T15:52:42.351+01:002012-10-16T15:52:42.351+01:00Cally
1. That's a very good point!
2. The only...Cally<br />1. That's a very good point!<br />2. The only problem is they always want to know how you *should* do it, or how *they should* do it, and it all comes back to that bloomin' thriller I wrote and the books I want to talk about I've followed paths I most definitely wouldn't advocate.<br />3. Nonetheless, that's a very good point and I shall avail myself of an ideological shoehorn to make use of it<br /><br />Mm, yes, Catherine, tangents - perfect!<br /><br />And I agree, Sue, that speaking events, whatever form they take, are hugely funDan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-66985875188021993322012-10-16T14:10:38.112+01:002012-10-16T14:10:38.112+01:00Agreed - and that's partly what these Society ...Agreed - and that's partly what these Society of Authors sessions turn into - a useful exchange of ideas about work as much as anything else. I've been (successfully!) trying to phase out 'workshops' for the past year, although I have a couple more to go, general drama workshops for a couple of groups. I still get asked to do radio writing workshops several years after my last radio play was produced, but now I just say 'no'. <br />My information isn't current enough and to make it worthwhile for all concerned, I would have to dig out CDs and scripts and I just can't bring myself to do it. My only reason for looking at radio scripts these days is to turn them into novels! <br />I love talking at a tangent though - about things that are related to what I write and why. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-91786813497714421672012-10-16T14:10:04.944+01:002012-10-16T14:10:04.944+01:00Completely agree with Cally (except about being fe...Completely agree with Cally (except about being fed-up with giving talks, which I enjoy, though I insist on being paid for it.)<br />And Dennis, I had rather taken it as 'goes without saying' that a good self-published book is no different to a good conventionally published book. It's the standard of writing that matters. The good, the excellent and the bloody awful can be found among the self-published and the conventionally published alike.Susan Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738737493756183909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-83652791284922783722012-10-16T13:55:18.664+01:002012-10-16T13:55:18.664+01:00I've come pretty late to this debate, but find...I've come pretty late to this debate, but find it very interesting. My own little point is that I was initially amazed that you wouldn't talk about 'your writing' as part of the 'self publishing' talk? During my periods of residency I had to deliver many talks and the like about various aspects of writing (I consider self publishing just an aspect of writing) and I always use my own experience (and my own writing) as examples. I gave a talk in 2003 about why I had 'self published' which sent the small publisher there into apoplexy but afterwards a timid wee woman came up to me and said 'thank you, I just never thought - we can do it for ourselves and you've shown me the value of how to do that' (I paraphrase obviously) So I guess my suggestion is that you have the confidence to realise that if you are talking about self pub you are NOT just there to talk about the nuts and bolts YOU CHOOSE what angle you take on it (especially if no ones paying you!) and you make it a talk which is more about creative freedom - and pepper it liberally with your own writing as example! Top Tip. Maybe. But then I don't DO talks/workshops or anything any more because I got FED UP talking about myself and my stuff! CallyPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15481379296340077102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-45523648540238864092012-10-16T11:40:46.358+01:002012-10-16T11:40:46.358+01:00Marvellous, Dennis! I shall very much look forward...Marvellous, Dennis! I shall very much look forward to seeing you. Just to check, though, I think it's in St Giles rather than Blackwell's.<br /><br />The mention of pay was very much a tangent in my piece but that's very interesting and yes, a possible double standard? Some bookshops (Blackwell's being a gleaming exemplar again with massive stalls up for days and tills next to the speaker's desk) are excellent at ensuring good sales at events. Others (at least one branch of Waterstones in London in my experience, and almost certainly more) not so muchDan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-61359196022372864692012-10-16T11:31:11.063+01:002012-10-16T11:31:11.063+01:00Dan, I shall be at Blackwell's on Wednesday wh...Dan, I shall be at Blackwell's on Wednesday when you talk to Cherry's group. Looking forward to it very much. I think you'll find a keenly interested audience -but, having met and worked with some of them, I can assure you they will be at least as interested in your writing as they will be in the self-publishing.<br /><br />About payment: I've never been paid for a visit to a bookshop, even when I'm asked to talk rather than just sit to sell books and be ignored for two hours. The theory is that I'll make up the loss with sales, though that's always been a pretty forlorn hope. A school or library is a completely different matter. There's a rather ominous double standard there which I won't enquire into. But I would hope nobody reputable works to the mantra 'published author good, self-published bad.' Honest people pay for expertise they wouldn't get from anyone else. Or so I'd like, perhaps foolishly, to think.Dennis Hamleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15781139870037634374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-58682701840032112252012-10-16T11:17:38.600+01:002012-10-16T11:17:38.600+01:00Catherine, I'm delighted that self-publishing ...Catherine, I'm delighted that self-publishing has opened up more rather than fewer chances to talk to readers for you. I must say that has happened to me with poetry, but not yet with prose. I do think probably things will rebalance themselves as the landscape settles. For all the main objects of my campaigning are the media and festivals, the main objects of my frustration are writers who forget they are writers before they are anything else.<br /><br />Jan and Lisa, wonderful how reintroductions are made!!Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-41508675521706340592012-10-16T10:45:26.425+01:002012-10-16T10:45:26.425+01:00Jan, you and Tom Sharpe made it legal for me to wr...Jan, you and Tom Sharpe made it legal for me to write what I wanted to write, out loud :)<br /><br />I think one of my favourite lines was '...thought he was as sexy as a septic tank...'<br /><br />:)<br />Lisa Scullardhttp://lisascullard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-61692627012420598012012-10-16T10:33:00.805+01:002012-10-16T10:33:00.805+01:00I'm not sure I approve of being more respectab...I'm not sure I approve of being more respectable than anything :)<br /><br />" people may well look at your books if they have found you interesting in person"<br />I have no idea whether I am interesting in person, but yes, that's a very important point. My sense is simply that when I speak about self-publishing in the sense people want to hear about it (editing and formatting and cover design and platforms, as opposed to the exciting "look at this world of creative possibility" way)<br />I am a lot less interesting than I would be talking about Modernism and identity and the like - and by being offered, and accepting, invitations to talk about self-publishing but not about my writing I am actually putting off the readers who might be interested in my writing in return for mildly interesting people who will hate my writing. Contrast that with the fabulous interview I was lucky enough to do for a small Facebook group (transcript here - http://shahsight.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/spotlight-dan-holloway.html) where we had a detailed discussion about the meaning of pain in modern society.]<br /><br /><br />Very much hope to see you at the Tea Box :)Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-78974300025249153212012-10-16T10:32:47.006+01:002012-10-16T10:32:47.006+01:00Behind the Bike Sheds! Wow, now that really was ch...Behind the Bike Sheds! Wow, now that really was chutzpah! I really loved that book, but as you can imagine, teachers hated it. It contains possibly my favourite line:<br /><br />LEGALISE CRIME!Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-38160879072626087972012-10-16T10:26:30.061+01:002012-10-16T10:26:30.061+01:00I'm still surprised that people offer to pay m...I'm still surprised that people offer to pay me for anything technical, that involves playing with a computer (formatting their books for print and ebook, setting up blogs and book pages), and even more so for anything to do with teaching them self-promotion, which to me personally is like scraping barnacles from the Devil's bottom. Like yourself, my enjoyment comes from writing itself, and creating some other world out of my thoughts. Not teaching.<br /><br />But maybe there are already folk who speak of such things eloquently enough, and not enough who can clearly point out where "RightClick-FormatPicture" is and what to do when the little box pops up on the screen...<br /><br />I haven't done any face-to-face public talks on self-publishing, although a few were discussed, maybe due to my loathage of selling and of those people who make money by running get-rich-quick conferences.<br /><br />Because also, like you, I would much prefer to be invited to talk about my imaginary friends and their adventures, or even about how I was inspired to write as a teenager by the authors Tom Sharpe and the little-known Jan Needle... I still have my original copy of 'Behind the Bike Sheds' ;) xLisa Scullardhttp://lisascullard.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-48002894704845762072012-10-16T10:21:56.669+01:002012-10-16T10:21:56.669+01:00Dan, I wasn's suggesting you didn't have o... Dan, I wasn's suggesting you didn't have other things to say, what I am saying is that people may well look at your books if they have found you interesting in person.<br />Being successfully self published makes you more interesting to more people than those of us who aren't successfully self published. You need some kind of platform to sell books these days and it seems to me you have one. If it translates into people buying your boks it doesn't seem to me to matter too much what it is and it is much more respectable than being a topless model.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442269757463713048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-81193584422317423882012-10-16T10:14:07.683+01:002012-10-16T10:14:07.683+01:00Dan, thanks for a really incisive and thought prov...Dan, thanks for a really incisive and thought provoking post. I too have been asked to speak about ebook publishing and you're right in that some people seem to see it as a way to make a quick buck. (Doomed to disappointment I'd say!) although I'm also asked to speak to older writers who have a backlist they want to get out there, and I'm happy to do that. I've done it for the Society of Authors in Scotland (am doing it again next week!) and to be honest, since we've been doing it as a threesome, I get a great deal out of what the others are saying -and also out of audience feedback. But there's a sense in which that is a discussion between fellow professionals and it can be immensely useful. In general, though, as the years have gone by, I find I get more pleasure from talking to readers rather than writers - and the self publishing thing has compounded this. Readers are much more interested in what I write and why, and how I got there, including ebook publishing. I did a session recently involving members of local bookgroups and found myself telling the (somewhat appalling but definitely entertaining!) story of my experiences with traditional publishing over the years. It's something I tend to avoid when I'm speaking to writers, on the principle that people have to follow their own dreams and who am I to tell them that any one way is better than another? Their experiences may be quite different. But this group of readers seemed to find the whole thing more interesting than I had realised it would be. Horses for courses, I suppose. Catherine Czerkawskahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14554969254207924049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-77873722061900101582012-10-16T10:11:35.937+01:002012-10-16T10:11:35.937+01:00Nicky, I think I will be back there hosting on the...Nicky, I think I will be back there hosting on the second Friday in December - would be lovely to see you. It's such a warm and friendly evening and an amazing venue.<br /><br />I would hope that the most interesting and original thing any writer has to say concerns their writing (if not, without casting nasturtiums as it were, then perhaps they ought not to present themselves as writers, for whom it is essential they can make a case to readers to drop *every single book that has been written except theirs* at one moment). I write experimental fiction about the nature of identity in the modern world - both the virtual world, and the disintegrated world of post-communist Europe - drawing from the tradition of the "literature of the ruins" that details the fragmentation of cultural identity since the death of Yugoslavia and from the online world of forums, bulletin boards and chatrooms where peopel endlessly reconstruict themselves, and hopefully add a touch of sentiment that is both my own and draws on the "exile in their hometown" writings of Kundera, Hrabl and others who wrote under communism. I'm sure it's no more important or interesting than what any other self-published writer is doing, but these are such important questions, and ones that writers pour their souls (not to mention 5 years of postgrad study on feminist studies of subjectivity identity in modern Europe, and goodness knows how many years spent travelling through Eastern Europe in my case, and everyone else's equivalent) into. It is especially frustrating when these are areas that regularly published novels just aren't looking at. <br /><br />Jan, full marks for chutzpah!Dan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-82132287101206604762012-10-16T09:40:28.834+01:002012-10-16T09:40:28.834+01:00There's another weird mindset growing up aroun...There's another weird mindset growing up around the world of virtual authors publishing virtual books. I get fairly frequent tweets from people offering to process and format Ebooks for nothing. Not sure why. The goodness of their souls, perhaps? I also have a highly qualified techie-wizard son, Matti Gardner - first class hons and then a master's in some form of computery stuff that is a mystery to me - who processes books for me, Julia Jones, and several other writers to the highest professional standards for a ridiculously small amount of money. Like most others of his generation he is finding earning a living in a job that would fit his skills excruciatingly hard to find.<br /><br />I expect we'll get there in the end, though. Hope so!<br /><br />For anyone interested, here are Matti's details:<br /><br />Email: matti@gramatticus.com<br />website: www.gramatticus.com<br />Jan Needlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15823078224282953782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-55909472327410747802012-10-16T09:20:02.550+01:002012-10-16T09:20:02.550+01:00Ah If I'd known you were a friend of Sue's...Ah If I'd known you were a friend of Sue's I would have come to listen at the Tea box as I live in Richmond.<br />It is true what you say the emphasis tends to be on the method of delivery not the message, but that is your USP isn't it ? There are too many writers who can woffle about writing. I wouldn't knock it because at least you you have a USP and most of us don't.Nickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442269757463713048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2429560125838989988.post-84246639674925202942012-10-16T09:06:00.222+01:002012-10-16T09:06:00.222+01:00I don't mind doing some talks for free. I mind...I don't mind doing some talks for free. I mind even less when it's not assumed - when it is assumed, I mind very much. And if I found out that regularly published authors were being paid for teh equivalent there'd be more than a flea in their ear.<br /><br />My real frustration is that people see that I'm self-published and only ever want me to talk about self-publishing - as though it's utterly irrelevant *what* I self-publish.<br /><br />The exception is the world of poetry (probably because pretty much everyone self-publishes, even the most high profile) where I don't think it's ever been mentioned, and where what people want are the poems. Which is probably why I've more and more ghettoised myself as a performance poet - it's a place that's made me feel at homeDan Hollowayhttp://danholloway.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com